BlitzBasic, very disapointing !
Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Beginners Area/BlitzBasic, very disapointing !
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| I am a registered user of BlitzBasic For some days, And i am very disapointed. I regret that i have paid For something like this. I will explain why ! 1) The IDE: This is a stupid IDE And the 'check error' is useless ! a) He give the error but Not the location of it. Where can i found an error like "Too many parameters" Or "Function xxxxxx not found". Using the Function 'Find' of this stupid IDE is Not a solution, but only a loosing of time. b) The list of Function created is Not classified by alphabetical order. If you have a lot of functions, you are loosing time To search it. c) Some basic fonctions of any Text editor is Not there. For best result And winning time i must use an external editor but cannot compile. The cursor is Not very visible, If you forget where he is, you can loose time searching it on the screen. d) The older technology of the 'Amos basic' (Amiga computers) whas a lot better. There whas an auto-help system (click on a command To see the docs of this instruction) And create smaller executable (Amos basic whas writed in assembly) And with a lot of tools And commands like a Mod-Player, like an level editor And others. 2) The source code from a simple BlitzPlus is Not compilable with a registred version of Blitz3D. a) This will make For the futur a lot of probblems of standardisation of BlitzBasic And previous Or older version of BlitzBasic. BlitzBasic will Not be compilable with New versions without problems. Are you ready To rewrite all Or part of your work in somes months/years ? Some people have buy the packed version of BlitzBasic And these version are Not supported anymore. So they are now with an BlitzBasic product without any support And (i suppose) the code source is totaly incompatible with an today release of BlitzBasic (BlitzBasic3D Or BlitzBasicPlus). b) This will make a lot of BlitzBasic different versions like in the good old time where all home computers had differents BASIC with the same functions but incompatible because of the different syntax Or commands name. 3) There is NO SUPPORT FROM BLITZBASIC, i have send 2 e-mail with questions about how To acces at the API of windows. It whas Not explained in the downloaded full version (just installed After downloaded). Now i know the answear because the upgrade explain a little about it. a) This is absolutly Not professional And Not serious. This is just good For an amateur shareware company because If i had asked something at Borland, i had already got an answear. b) When i will get a more problematic question about BB, i will never get an answear. This is Not professional And Not serious enterprise. I will never buy another product Or upgrade, And will never recommand BlitzBasic. 4) There are a lot of things that is missing. a) You cannot create Byte Or 16 bits sized variables. If you need it For passing parameters To an external library, you can't. If you need a array of byte, you have no other choice than use an array of integer ! 4x the size of bytes, this is a lot of memory spoiled For nothing. There is no pointer For memory acces Or For some algorithms that it can need it. You can Not use external functions that need some pointers. The integer of BB are Not unsigned: value above 2 Go is impossible. b) You cannot get the Handle of your program ! How Then must you do To call some WinAPI that it need it ? Where are the basics 'dialog box' Or the 'Menu functions' in BB ? There is'nt ! In fact, the BB is only a bad shaped BASIC with a very good DirectX wrapper. It whas preferably To create a 'DirectX wrapper library' usable with most Delphi, Turbo-Pascal, Or Borland C++ Builder than create another incompatible programming language. For serious games with optimized algorithms, BB is Not the better choice And more, in fact when you have good programming use, BB is useless because you are very limited without a lot of difficulties If you want access out of BB. For optimised algorithms, BB is useless. Seem that every Computer company want create his own programming language than create adds-on For already exist compilers. A human have a very short life, And learning a lot of language is useless. It is better To talk one language good Or very good than speak 10 language badly. A very disapointed REGISTRED user of BlitzBasic. |
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| I like it. Yeah the IDE is a bit shoddy but I've written 2 commercial products with it and blitz has paid for itself several times over from the proceeds. Yes it is for small software / shareware programmers. It's a very cheap language, what do you expect? B+ and B3D are not compatible 100%, yes do you have to make changes, that's because B+ is a newer product. B2D however is compatible with B3D. Anyway, shame you don't like it, most people here do like it. And seeing as you've only made one forum post it doesn't look like you've tried to overcome any problems. |
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| No, or you would have found that many of the problems you mention are either easily fixable, or flat out not true. Although I agree that the debugger could use improving. And you're right about the lack of byte support etc, and a couple of other things. But hey, the language is still evolving (which also means - horror! - that 100% backwards-compatibility can't always be guaranteed). Blitz Basic *is* 100% compatable with blitz3d however. But it seems like you've made up your mind. What I want to know is, why did you buy it in the first place if you don't like it? Aside from that, I also think that when you say that blitz is only for amateurs you insult everyone who is using it to create professional products, and personally, I take offense at that. And of course when you say "This is Not professional And Not serious enterprise." you are insulting to Blitz Research and the years of hard work that went into these products, which are easily worth the asking price. I don't know what you're hoping to achieve with this outburst to be honest... |
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| Perhaps you should take more than just a few days to evaluate a language before you start posting this sort of rubbish. Did you even try the demo version before buying Blitz? Steve. |
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| [EDITED] I am a registered user of BlitzBasic For some days, And i am very disapointed. I regret that i have paid For something like this. I'm sorry for you; as others have answered, you may try it a bit longer before to make your assumptions. I've purchased Blitz2D since it has born, then Blitz3D and then the newest BlitzPlus, and I must say I'm more than satisfied with this language, and happy to support it. For 2D games and applications, BlitzPlus gives me almost everything I need. And the language can also be expanded, using external DLLs, either the Windows standard or thirdy party created dlls. The language is powerful and self explanatory, the exe is incredible fast, and the BlitzPlus exes run on any machine with win 9x, included NT. The newest Blitz3D update - which is FREE for all registered users, as the previous ones - includes also cubemapping capability, which opens the possibility of programming astonishing 3D commercial games. I will explain why ! 1) The IDE: This is a stupid IDE And the 'check error' is useless ! a) He give the error but Not the location of it. Where can i found an error like "Too many parameters" Or "Function xxxxxx not found". Using the Function 'Find' of this stupid IDE is Not a solution, but only a loosing of time. You are partially right here. Bare in mind that the IDE, as far as I know, is still under development. The offending error location is given by the debugger, which can be turned on from within the IDE menu. It would give you the statement where the error has occurred. The search function works for me; it is also true, that the search string should be set for each source tab, though. Anyway, the IDE is simple but yet an effective editor. And while you program, you may don't want to be distracted by all the whistles-and-bells options from other editors. It may be upgraded though; and you can also find other thirdy party editors b) The list of Function created is Not classified by alphabetical order. If you have a lot of functions, you are loosing time To search it. That's true, and other users - included me - have already asked for that feature, and I hope too it will be implemented. c) Some basic fonctions of any Text editor is Not there. For best result And winning time i must use an external editor but cannot compile. As said, if you are not completely satisfied with the editor, you may use another free one available out there. The compiler can easily be linked to editors like ultraedit, and others. The cursor is Not very visible, If you forget where he is, you can loose time searching it on the screen. The cursor shape, as well as other editor features, can be tailored to your needings by editing the .prefs file, which is located in the config directory of the blitzbasic main program. If you change the shape of the cursor from I-beam to block cursor, you will easily find it in the IDE. d) The older technology of the 'Amos basic' (Amiga computers) whas a lot better. There whas an auto-help system (click on a command To see the docs of this instruction) And create smaller executable (Amos basic whas writed in assembly) And with a lot of tools And commands like a Mod-Player, like an level editor And others. As far as I know, the Blitz language is very closed to the Amiga style. You can also select a command and press F1 to obtain the command syntax. If you press F1 twice, you get an help page with a complete example of that command usage. 2) The source code from a simple BlitzPlus is Not compilable with a registred version of Blitz3D. I have no problem to compile a source of BlitzPlus with Blitz3D, unless I use commands that are expecially made for BlitzPlus - such canvas, buttons, and such - or the other way around - ex. using 3D commands which are expecially made for Blitz3D and not for BlitzPlus. If you use the normal 2D command set to build up your source, it will be completely compatible with both versions of Blitz. a) This will make For the futur a lot of probblems of standardisation of BlitzBasic And previous Or older version of BlitzBasic. BlitzBasic will Not be compilable with New versions without problems. Are you ready To rewrite all Or part of your work in somes months/years ? Some people have buy the packed version of BlitzBasic And these version are Not supported anymore. So they are now with an BlitzBasic product without any support And (i suppose) the code source is totaly incompatible with an today release of BlitzBasic (BlitzBasic3D Or BlitzBasicPlus). I don't know from where you get this info, but I'm sorry to inform you that they are totally wrong. As said, one strong point of Blitz is his compatibility. Of course, you can't pretend that 3D commands are compiled by a 2D compiler, and that special 2D window commands - like already said, canvas, gadgets, windows,.. - are compatible with a 3D language which does not supports such commands. Do you ask for apples when you want to buy oranges ? b) This will make a lot of BlitzBasic different versions like in the good old time where all home computers had differents BASIC with the same functions but incompatible because of the different syntax Or commands name. Again, I ignore the source of your informations, which IMHO are totally wrong. 3) There is NO SUPPORT FROM BLITZBASIC, i have send 2 e-mail with questions about how To acces at the API of windows. It whas Not explained in the downloaded full version (just installed After downloaded). Now i know the answear because the upgrade explain a little about it. There IS support for BlitzBasic, and this support is free for registered users. The support consists in: - new updates of the language with new commands and eventually bug fixes; - a very friendly forums where you may find the answers to your questions; - the forum code archives, which is a repository of useful source code snippets, which covers several topics, in both 2D and 3D programming. As in the real life, if you post a thread in a gentle and correct way, you may get help from lots of users. If you, instead, act like an immature and shoot nasty words at 360 degrees, then you can't complain if you get no help. a) This is absolutly Not professional And Not serious. This is just good For an amateur shareware company because If i had asked something at Borland, i had already got an answear. I personally have written already some professional game with Blitz, and so several other users. Some of the game have also been published. I suggest you to check and discover by yourself how many Blitz games are already published - you may be surprised. And, if you ask Borland with the same unprofessional style you are using here, I bet you will only get banned. b) When i will get a more problematic question about BB, i will never get an answear. This is Not professional And Not serious enterprise. I will never buy another product Or upgrade, And will never recommand BlitzBasic. Again, the problem is not the language, is the way you act with the community. If you respect the others, then you'll get help and respect back. 4) There are a lot of things that is missing. a) You cannot create Byte Or 16 bits sized variables. If you need it For passing parameters To an external library, you can't. If you need a array of byte, you have no other choice than use an array of integer ! 4x the size of bytes, this is a lot of memory spoiled For nothing. There is no pointer For memory acces Or For some algorithms that it can need it. You can Not use external functions that need some pointers. The integer of BB are Not unsigned: value above 2 Go is impossible. I ignore the aim of your application, but what I can say from my personal experience, is that I am not limited at all by the byte variable fuss you are describing - and that I must confess, I don't get completely. Instead, the Blitz language is so user friendly that you can concentrate on the pleasure of programming with it, and produce very nice and professional results, if only you are able to recognize and use its power, instead of complaining of the lack of this or that feature which exist only in your mind. Look, if you turn your head around, and see the quality of the blitz games and application - make a tour in the gallery for example, or at www.blitzcoder.com - then you recognize that if other people can make such a nice looking games, that means that the language IS powerful. b) You cannot get the Handle of your program ! How Then must you do To call some WinAPI that it need it ? Where are the basics 'dialog box' Or the 'Menu functions' in BB ? There is'nt ! Again, you find the menu function and all the basic dialog box in the BlitzPlus command set. I guess you need read more documentation, before to post such a thread. In fact, the BB is only a bad shaped BASIC with a very good DirectX wrapper. It whas preferably To create a 'DirectX wrapper library' usable with most Delphi, Turbo-Pascal, Or Borland C++ Builder than create another incompatible programming language. For serious games with optimized algorithms, BB is Not the better choice And more, in fact when you have good programming use, BB is useless because you are very limited without a lot of difficulties If you want access out of BB. For optimised algorithms, BB is useless. Seem that every Computer company want create his own programming language than create adds-on For already exist compilers. A human have a very short life, And learning a lot of language is useless. It is better To talk one language good Or very good than speak 10 language badly. A very disapointed REGISTRED user of BlitzBasic. Dear Maverick357, I have some suggestion for you: 1) get a life ! 2) read more about Blitz, try out the examples and the sources which you find in the Blitz documentation; 3) then come back and make your questions in a more gentle way. I'm sure you will change your mind about blitz. A very happy Blitz user, Sergio. |
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| Maverick357, Maybe you should give Blitz a fresh look? |
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| Please Sorry if i seem to be aggressive in py posting or if i seem to have no good manners. My language is not the english, so i have not always the good or finest word word for explaining my mind. I really life here, i am a good guy always helping if i can. Thanks for your understanding. Here my answear: General answear for all: What i whas looking with BB3D: a) a easy and fast access to DirectX without all the problems that DirectX need to work. I think personnaly that MS have complicated for nothing his DirectX API. There whas easy to give an Easy APIs commands and keep all the init stuff hidden or not needed (Like BB, simple commands that do all the stuff in an easy way). This is a good point for BB family b) At least, a full compatibility in the BB family and a full range off datas size. This is a bad point for BB family because i whas unable to compile sample games of BlitzPlus. I will good understand that i can't compile a higher compiler source (BB3D) to a lower compiler (BB+) But a 2D source => 3d Source MUST be full compatible other else problems are coming like a got with ANY samples/sources of BB. I don't know the date of creation of 'Blitz Boulders 2000' but if it is 2000, then whe are now 2004 and the source is incompatible and unable to run/compile. Amos Basic (Amiga computers) and GFA-Basic (Amiga & Atari ST computers) whas very good products as long as i can remember. You can do everithing with it, and all size of datas + pointers whas present. Everithing from the OS whas reacheable in an easy way. I remember (for who knows the Amiga and the Amiga OS) that every OS of the Amiga whas easy for graphics or others OS API (just make a call with params to a look-up table of functions) and MS whas able to create an Easy OS API like this (for Win32 and DirectX but this another story. c) At least acces directly in an easy way to the OS API of Windows like BB dit it for DirectX. I don't want have a hard day for simple OS API, this is just moving the problem. I have the full (original and registred versions) of Borland C++ 4.5, Builder C++ 3.x, Builder C++ 6.x, Delphi 2.0, Delphi 6.0. And the free release of Borland C++ 5.5, Free-Pascal (very good and FREE). But with this programming language, accessing DirectX is not an easy Task. I don't want use BB for easy access to DirectX and difficulties to create a simple Menu or 'dialog box'. d) A FULL documentation of the all instruction set and commands of BB. A lot of things are not in the manual !!! The auto-help (the F1 key) is nowhere (or not clearly ??) indicate in the manual, it is somebody here in the forum that have give the infos. BB is a good BASIC but there is not a good IDE, there is not a good documentation for elementary functions (F1 Key, API access,...) that a newbie need to use and mastering BB. Just imagine a genius cpu chip maker, that have created the best and fastest cpu of the universe, but don't give the full instruction set documentation. His cpu is useless and can go to the bin ! I am not a newbie in programming and i am ready to make a lot of effort to mastering BB, i have learning programming in a time where ram size MUST be spared and code optimized. I have keep habit of optimising my code, where if i can do it with a byte, i will not use 32 bits. Just think about of a regular array of byte defining the tilemap of a level: 500 x 500 of byte = 250000 bytes = 244 Ko (rounded). 500 x 500 of byte x 4 (1 word = 4 bytes) = 244 Ko x 4 = 976 Ko. 976 Ko - 244 Ko = 732 Ko of ram spoiled just for NOTHING. Personnaly, i don't think that it is very professional to spoil the hardware resource of the user with this kind of programming. Too bad everybody do it, Big companies like MS do it, but i am not a 'sheep of Panurge.' I want to keep good habits of programming. I think that previous programmers of the old school with very good programming technics whas artist or craftman because there works whas great with very little in there. They can be proud of there works. They have making the computers story a legend with unforgetables games hits. For Dr Av: I whas expecting about BB3D a lot of more commands for mastering and use the Win OS (like menu) and compatibility with previous/and same family of BB. I whas very angry and upset to see that i cannot compile a demo source code from BlitzPlus with a BB3D full version (and upgraded with the last patch). I had try find where whas the problem with 'check errors' and 'run the program' but they give errors messages without saying where is located the problem. This i why i have write a post to say how i whas disapointed. When i send a e-mail to the support team i got no response. This is why iwas angry and said that Blitz ltd and BB is not professional. And not about the shareware/programmers that it use it. It is too easy to put an 'Support e-mail' and never respond to any question that is send to it, because there is a forum with good happy users that make the job for nothing. I have nothing againt the forum or others help-users community because i have used/helped it a lot with different purpose (programming, emulators, rpg,...). For Anthony Flack: - "Blitz Basic *is* 100% compatable with blitz3d however. " False, see above ! - "Aside from that, I also think that when you say that blitz is only for amateurs you insult everyone who is using it to create professional products, and personally, I take offense at that." Sorry about this misunderstand, this whas not what i mind, see above. - "And of course when you say "This is Not professional And Not serious enterprise." This is what i think, because there is no respond to e-mail. If the question whas in the doc, the a proffessional that take care of customers give a least a hint where you can find the answear. In this case nothing ! This is while a keep my mind about Blitz ltd. For MystiK: - "Perhaps you should take more than just a few days to evaluate a language before you start posting this sort of rubbish. " - "Did you even try the demo version before buying Blitz? " Maybee i don't have past enough time withh BB, but i know enough to see what is wrong. Yes, i have try the demo is not a full product and i whas hope thas in full versions this missing whas gone. For Semar: - "you may try it a bit longer before to make your assumptions. " I will try again, but it will not make disappear all the problems that i have listed. Upgrade is free ?! This is a minimum, every compiler have free upgrade to download ! Yes, it has a lot of functions, but it lacks of basics ones, like byte and pointers supports. See above. Yes, very fast to create program. For the speed of graphics, nothing amazing because it use the DirectX. This is not BB that is fast in graphics but only DirectX. - "The offending error location is given by the debugger, which can be turned on from within the IDE menu. It would give you the statement where the error has occurred. " Sorry to say, it is false in some case. Try to compile 'Blitz Boulders 2000' from BB+. I don't need "whistles-and-bells" but for example a 'cancel' after a bad paste is a minimum. And a 'Option' for set the preference is needed. Remember the working directory is an absolute neccesity, if this option is availlable where in the doc is it explained ? I use UltraEdit-32 and very satisfied of it, but why use an external editor if the IDE is good made ? Too bad the IDE is a bad one, and using UltraEdit is not a real solution because there is no 'jump to function' at the right of the screen. Where in the manual is it write that you can modify the config file and how ? But i have found already, without some docs i don't touch it for security. Ah yes, the F1 key ...Where in the manual is it write... Yes, BB is a little Amiga style with less access to API. - "I have no problem to compile a source of BlitzPlus with Blitz3D, unless I use commands that are expecially made for BlitzPlus - such canvas, buttons, and such - or the other way around - ex. using 3D commands which are expecially made for Blitz3D and not for BlitzPlus. " Sorry to say, it is false in ANY case. Try to compile 'Blitz Boulders 2000' from BB+. Try to compile ANY sample games of BB+ I am not stupid, if i had buy BB3D, it is just because i wanted a full compatibility with lower edition of BB. - "one strong point of Blitz is his compatibility. Of course, " Yes, sure see above. From BlitzBasic FAQ: - Q: Is there an upgrade discount for Blitz2D owners wanting to buy BlitzPlus? A: Unfortunately, no. We would have liked to have provided such a discount, but circumstances beyond our control made this impossible. I am not in this case, but... if this is your case, too bad, pay again. When BlitzBasic whas came out, i whant really buy it, i have the chance that i have no do it (i whas waiting how this product will evolve, luck for me) because they are so many product very good (Just Look for Jade, a game creator programming language (From the author of Amos basic) with a lot of more possibility (like internet games applets) but cost a lot more. Morality: NEVER BUY a previous/beta release, or you will be ... - Compatibility of BB and different version ? See above. Enough example THAT there is different incompatible BB: - BB2D. - BB+. - BB3D. - "- a very friendly forums where you may find the answers to your questions; " This is TRUE but this not a SUPPORT service, this is a friendly way to help together. - "- the forum code archives, which is a repository of useful source code snippets, which covers several topics, in both 2D and 3D programming. " I must go see it somethime. I hope the source code is well documented, other else... - "As in the real life, if you post a thread in a gentle and correct way, you may get help from lots of users. If you, instead, act like an immature and shoot nasty words at 360 degrees, then you can't complain if you get no help. " Like i explain before, i don't know perfectly the english, so somethimes i don't use the correct word for say something. I don't want to be agressive, i am a nice guy and pacifist man ;-). But really, i whas angry of all this unneccessary problems just for compiling a BB source code. I just wanted to see how whas the size/speed/and efficience of 2D arcade game with 32 bits sized tilemaps. I had already started a levelmap/sprites editor but after writing somes line of code, i see that thereis no byte support, no pointers, no unsigned variables. The oldest BASIC that i can remember (ZX spectrum 48K in 1983) had unsigned variables and pointers. Hiw disapointing not to find it here in BASIC of 21th century. - "Again, you find the menu function and all the basic dialog box in the BlitzPlus command set. I guess you need read more documentation, before to post such a thread. " Why is this command not implemented in BB3D the most powerfull (and highest priced of BB family) ? Just for selling 2 time the same product ? For Dr Av and Semar: Thanks for the links. I will look after, Yes BB seem to be good and powerfull but it can be better ! |
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| Maverick - code a simple game - and i guaranty - you will love blitz! It's simple to use and it's fast... You hate IDE? Hm I love BB-IDE - it's so simple and easy - you don't need a monster IDE to create games... And you can use other IDE's - some free some commercial - or text editors... -EDIT- I wrote 300KB large source code in BB2D and i can run my program in BB3D without changes! And i can run my program in BB+ - but with some speed decrease (after i add new bb+ image-flags to my code, my prog run with the same speed!) But i agree BB+ is a bit incompatible with bb2d/3d (if you use brand new gui stuff) " 500 x 500 of byte = 250000 bytes = 244 Ko (rounded). 500 x 500 of byte x 4 (1 word = 4 bytes) = 244 Ko x 4 = 976 Ko. 976 Ko - 244 Ko = 732 Ko of ram spoiled just for NOTHING. " USE BANKS!!! |
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| I think you have misunderstood somewhere. Anything made with blitz basic (the discontinued one) will work with Blitz3d. But, Blitz+ is actually the newest product; it contains all the access to windows and stuff you were after. But, no 3d support. So, 2 seperate programs, neither are superior - it depends on your requirements. |
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| There are userlibs which allow you to grab the window handle in Blitz3D and do all sorts of things with it. Check the Code Archives. Mark sweated over breaking Blitz into two products back when he introduced BlitzPlus. He finally decided to place Blitz3D squarely as a game development language and BlitzPlus as a language for creating Windows applications. I don't think he meant it to be an evil money-grabbing scheme; he just wanted to test a new way of doing things without make a HUGE change to his flagship product. He's careful that way, which prevents Blitz from having ten thousand bugs. The IDE has long been a complaint, which is why there are several people who have switched to a new one or even written their own. There are Blitz config files floating around for several freeware/shareware IDEs. |
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| http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=28752 Can't be that bad. |
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| For Mr Credo: - "Maverick - code a simple game - and i guaranty - you will love blitz! It's simple to use and it's fast... " Ok, i will really try it, and give BB3D another chance. - "USE BANKS!!! Yes, it seem to be a solution (the Amiga used banks too, so i know how to use banks ;-) ) and the offset of this range of commands seem capable to be used like a pointer. BB3D banks seem to be powerfull too. For Anthony Flack: - "So, 2 seperate programs, neither are superior - it depends on your requirements. " Too bad because if i wanted created a 3D program and need a 'dialog box' for asking some value or if a need a 'menu' for some options/load/save/ and others choice i am unable to do easily without calling WinAPI. The solution, buy another product just for 2D ? Well this will not solve the menu problem in BB3D. For Miracle: - "There are userlibs which allow you to grab the window handle in Blitz3D and do all sorts of things with it. Check the Code Archives." Thanks for the tips/hint. I found it and will certainly try it if i need it. For your explanation of why 2 BB product, i am not okay with this explanation. The menu and others API commands in BB+ are just call to API OS with some functions to wrapper the difficulties of all inits. Like an external library if you prefer. When i whas programming a Unit with Delphi, very little work is needed to make 1 units with 2 others units, just copy everithing (datas, functions, ect...) in one and recompile it. If Delphi/Builder can do it, Visual C can certainly do it too, is'nt ? For GFK: I see it, that will no forgiven lack of the documentation. Yes, BB3D is powerfull, but think good about. BB family is used like a wrapper of DirectX functions, a good DirectX wrapper library with any compiler you want (Delphi, Builder C++, Visual C) will be fast and easy with a lot of advantage. What is difficult in windows programming is the access to OS API, not the language itself. If you have good programming logic and master the basic commands of your compiler, using an easy external Graphics/OS wrapper library make the devellopment very fast too. Why i have buy BB3D, i whas searching to win time and a easy access to DirectX an WinAPI. Other else creating a basic wrapper unit for Delphi that create easy command (like BB) and do all the init stuff is not so difficult. It is just boring and time consuming. Think about, and look at some windows code source, you initialisation of an Win application take 2 or 3 pages long (allways the same stupid init in each programs) just to registering and initialisation of the application ! If you create just a command/function like 'WinInit' that do all this stupid stuff in an unit, create a lot of this command for each API you need, and you have the power of BB2D, BB+, or BB3D. too. Too bad that FastGraph for windows is no more online at: www.fastgraph.com (is this product no more ?) because this whas a powerfull Graphics library (2D3D) that whas easy, fast (like BB), compatible with any compiler in this world, and can use DirectX API too. Too bad i have waited too long for buying one, past week when i whas go for buy it, the website whas unreachible and then i buy the BB3D. For resumming BB family is good product to use for wrapping access to OS API, but for other advantage (size and mastering the code you create, there is no real thing better than a full compiler. Remember, BB is fast because API are fast, if BB whas used WING API, he will be slow too. |
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| to create userlibs read this. http://www.blitzbasic.com/sdkspecs/sdkspecs/userlibs_specs.txt a c++ demo http://www.blitzbasic.com/sdkspecs/sdkspecs/userlibs_demo.zip also i personaly create dll's with purebasic... I use purebasic for application dev and B3D for game dev..... |
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| I use UltraEdit-32 and very satisfied of it, but why use an external editor if the IDE is good made ? Too bad the IDE is a bad one, and using UltraEdit is not a real solution because there is no 'jump to function' at the right of the screen. You can jump to functions in UltraEdit if you set it up correctly for Blitz. Take a look here and here. |
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| Thanks for the infos Darklords. I see that basically, PureBasic have the same price than BB+ I a really must buy now an Basic for 2D application or games, it is better to keep BB other else it is another commands/functions to learn. For creating dlls with generic functions that is not calling the OS, i prefer to use Delphi (Pascal object in fact, because i never use the graphic interface for develloping application (VC), the size of this exe are absolutely TOO big in comparison with a text source code). I understand that you prefer some basic for dlls creation, i prefer Delphi for power and liberty you get with your code. Otherelse the pascal is easy and fast to learn like the BASIC. The possibility of create units and the real standard of the pascal language. If you are interest, there exist FreePascal that can create good dlls with an source code in assembly as result. So you can what is the result after compiling the pascal code. I have seen that you can create Windows application too compatible with Delphi now. I have used freePascal at the begining of this project because that whas full compatible with Turbo-pascal 7.0 (for Dos) with native 32 bits code. Other advantage whas the assembly code source created, so you optimise by hand if you want. You can get a look for it at: http://www.freepascal.org/ and/or download the binaries, sources code of the compiler. The docs is FULL and COMPLETE. A really professional product for FREE. Yiipee !!! |
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| @Maverick357 > Purebasic is just syntax that gets translated to assembler..... |
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| Yes, currently there is no way to do dialog boxes etc with blitz3d. Only blitz+ does that. Blitz+ is the first steps in a new direction for blitz that eventually should, by the sounds of it, do everything you want it to do and more. But it's not finished yet. For most people that's not a problem as standard windows stuff usually doesn't look very good in a 3d game anyway. Remember, blitz+ is the newest version - basically it's a complete rewrite - and it had to be changed quite a bit to make it more windows-integrated (amongst other things). Which is also why the language is a little different in Blitz+. |
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| Maverick357 (since you're email uses a .be I assume you speak French, that's why I'll speak French too - sorry for other users that can't understand French) : Il faut se renseigner sur l'historique de BlitzBasic avant de commencer a chercher la petite bête. La première version compatible windows (fini mon amiga et Blitz Basic ][ ) était Blitz2D, qui utilisait déjà le même IDE que maintenant. Cependant, Blitz2D étant assez limité, ce langage a évolué en deux branches : Blitz3D et Blitz+, permettant respectivement de coder des applications utilisant la 3D et des applications utilisant l'API de Windows. Le choix de la version dépend du but final. Personellement j'ai acheté toutes les versions de BlitzBasic au fur et à mesure de leur sorties. Je suis certes un peu déçu par les versions windows actuelles (qui sont peu complètes par rapport au bon vieux Blitz de mon Amiga) mais je constate les évolutions du langage (qui vont dans le "bon" sens). Actuellement je travaille sur un jeu "online" qui utilise BB+ *et* B3D. Les possibilitées s'étendent de plus en plus. Je comprend parfaitement que les développeurs préfèrent passer du temps sur le langage plutôt que de travailler sur l'IDE (surtout vu la quantité d'IDE gratuits codés par d'autres personnes). Actuellement, comme surement beaucoup de monde ici, j'attend BlitzMax, qui devrais être encore plus puissant (openGL, etc...). J'espère le voir venir bientôt ... Wait and see... |
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| Cependant, Blitz2D étant assez limité, ce langage a évolué en deux branches : Blitz3D et Blitz+, permettant respectivement de coder des applications utilisant la 3D et des applications utilisant l'API de Windows. L'API de Windows ce peut utiliser aussi avec Blitz3D, et non soulement avec Blitz+. Sergio. |
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| There is NO SUPPORT FROM BLITZBASIC, i have send 2 e-mail with questions about how To acces at the API of windows When i send a e-mail to the support team i got no response. This is why iwas angry and said that Blitz ltd and BB is not professional. And not about the shareware/programmers that it use it. It is too easy to put an 'Support e-mail' and never respond to any question that is send to it, because there is a forum with good happy users that make the job for nothing. For the benefit of others reading, I did reply, with a detailed email as to the purpose/methodology of Blitz3D -- a 'black box' environment for making 3D games, not a general-purpose language with low-level API access -- to this guy's email on 9 Jan (1 minute after midnight). His previous email before deciding the support email address was 'useless' was received at 17:50 on on 7 Jan. I would *always* recommend (generally, not just as Blitz support) that a person checks whether a product supports the features they need before buying; the Blitz 3D features -- clearly describing a language made for writing 2D and 3D games -- are available on the Products page. There is *no* mention whatsoever in the product description of API access, and the description talks about nothing but 2D and 3D games programming, because that's what Blitz 3D is for. This is like buying Adobe Photoshop and complaining that it doesn't record anything from your microphone -- it's not meant to! There's no suggestion that it can! |
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| One thing I would add. I love the blitz IDE, I hate having to much clutter about an IDE like folding functions, I like the raw feel and I like to stay in touch with my code. The only thing this guy has said I do agree with is the Function list on the right ? Im wondering if there is a way to sort this without getting a blitz update. |
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| i am programer of visual c++ and ide of visual c++ is fantastic. the ide of blitz is suficent for all users and the lenguage is easy, is perfect for make games or apps very fast, in five days i learn a lenguaje and make my first app: EntityEditor. i love Amos of Amiga :) i remember the fantastic function: amal if you dont understand remember i am spanish and my english is very bad ;) |
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| Blitz Rocks! :) |
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| Blitz + Protean rocks even more... |
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| @Blitzsupport This is like buying Adobe Photoshop and complaining that it doesn't record anything from your microphone -- it's not meant to! There's no suggestion that it can! Bad example ;-) Photoshop actually *will* record from your microphone. It has an 'audio annotation' feature, that allows you to record voice 'notes' to yourself. If you save your image in Photoshop format (.PSD) the recorded sound is saved to the file as well, and can be replayed later. (It's an extension to the older 'text note' ability) |
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| Bah... you know what I mean... :) |
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| For MagicalTux: C'est vrai, BlitzBasic version Amiga avait le meme IDE, mais on pouvait esperer que 10 ans apres, l'IDE ce serait ameliore, n'est-ce pas ? Quant au fait qu'il y ai deux versions parallele de BB, c'est comme vendre Delphi en deux partie: une version avec une partie des instructions et l'autre avec la seconde partie du language pascal-objet. Imagine simplement un emulateur (WinUAE par exemple), il traduit 100% du code cpu en code cpu/fonctions pour la machine cible. Certains emulateurs ont evolues pour traduire 100% des fonctions de la machine source simplement en ajoutant les opcode et les fonctions neccessaires. Si tu est un programmeur de langage tels que Turbo-Pascal/Delphi (ou FreePascal GRATUIT et complet) ou de Borland Builder C++, tu sais qu'il suffit de rajouter les fonctions dans la bibliotheque de BB et d'adapter l'interpreteur/compilateur de BB. Si le code source de BB est clair et bien documente, c'est une operation sans douleurs. Mais il est evidamment plus rentable de vendre 2 produits differents basée sur un algorithme déjà écrit qu'il suffit d'adapter. Tu avoue toi-meme que BB manque un peu de puissance et de fonctions de base (byte, pointeurs, ect...) mais tu achete toute les version BB, ce qui fait de toi un bon client rentable pour Blitz Ltd. Personnellement, je prefere le compilateur Delphi (que j'utilise uniquement en tant que compilateur pascal-objet sans les VCL qui bouffent un max de RAM pour rien, un simple "Hello world" sans VCL = +-16 Ko, avec VCL plus de 380 Ko, beurk !) pour sa puissance d'un langage structure, clair et puissant car toute les tailles et types de donnees sont possible. Mon seul regret, c'est l'absance en standard d'une librairie pour acceder aux API de DirectX. BB Max, encore un autre BB ! Au lieu de creer un BB complet ! Il aurait mieux valu cree une bibliotheque de fonctions qui aurait simplifier la programmation, et qui aurait put etre compatible avec tout les compilateurs (comme FastGraph, par exemple). Le devellopement/programmation de jeux et autres aurait alors ete aussi rapide qu'avec BB. BB en fait, n'appelle que les API existantes en simplifiant leurs init et parametres. En programmant une API chaque jour pour en simplifier la programmation, on peut avoir au bout d'une année 365 fonctions differentes dans une tres petite librairie de fonctions. C'est juste une programmation peu interessante et qui prend du temps. Mais je pense malgré tout mis mettre, car une telle bibliotheque n'existe pas et serai tres utile pourtant. Bonne chance pour ton jeu. For James L Boyd, Blitz Basic Support. Well very strange, i never get YOUR e-mail but i get every others e-mail. Computers are really very strange, sometimes they have bad humors. |
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| Blitz is not disappointing, it all depends on your creativity, you can feel like something is bad, but until you try making things, you will find out that you are capable of doing incredible stuff using Blitz. Before I started using Blitz, I used other languages, one of them was the horrible Dark Basic Pro. I got used to working in it, even when the syntax was and is horrible, but that's all I knew. I downloaded the B3D demo and didn't try doing anything in it, until a year later, but once I started doing things on Blitz, I found out, is not bad at all, it all depends on what you want to do, Blitz has incredible capabilities, and you can expand them using the userlibs and dlls. Of course is not C++ or Java, but if you can save time, and you can deliver quality that's all that matters. |
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| Well very strange, i never get YOUR e-mail but i get every others e-mail. Well, here it is again, with headers; I assume you won't mind, as you haven't received it via email, and are happy to accuse me in public of not providing support to you: From: "James L Boyd" <support@...; To: "Moffa Roger" <roger.moffa@...; References: <000801c3d475$5ac61920$4a8784d5@...; Subject: Re: Newbie with BlitzBasic 3D: incomplete (or bad maked) manual ? Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:01:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Moffa Roger <roger.moffa@...; wrote: > What i have not find in the manual is how to acces to the API of > windows or how to get the Handle/HandleDC with BB. There is no direct Win32 API access in Blitz 3D; it's aimed first and foremost at making 2D and 3D games development very easy, and operates mostly as a 'black box' programming environment, ie. it is not intended to provide low-level hardware/OS access. > I have all ready programmed for a long time, so i am a newbie only in > BB. > I am not aggressive and just want to explain what i don't like and > how to find a good solution. > I think that a good Manual MUST explain this kind of OS > interface/External library because it is used a lot in general > programming. Again, Blitz 3D is not a 'general programming' language. There is a 'userlibs' interface that provides very basic access to 3rd party DLLs, and this is documented on the Specs & Utils page (http://www.blitzbasic.com/sdkspecs/sdkspecs.php) as it is not a core part of Blitz 3D. Although it can access much of the OS API, it is geared towards custom DLLs, so you cannot do everything in the Win32 APIs (and it is not at all straightforward to do so, this not being a primary function of Blitz 3D); the primary use for this interface is for custom DLLs written especially for interfacing with Blitz programs. > An auto-help (for example like AmosBasic(Amiga) where just clicking > the keyword in the source give the explanation/parameters) > will be a good help or at last a search system like helpfile for > Delphi or Builder C++. Press F1 when the edit cursor is on a command to bring up the quick-help text (in the status bar at the bottom of the IDE), and press again for the full help text on the command. > .lib , .decls and others keywords/commands (?) or compiler directive > (?) not found or explained in the manual !!! Please see the document referenced above; this is a very basic interface intended mainly for custom DLLs, and not a core part of the Blitz command set, so is not documented with the 'normal' commands. > The BlitzBasic seem to be a good tool for programming, but Basic is a > programming language that MUST be simple AND easy to use ! > If YOU don't give the FULL documentation about your program, wich > will do it ? because you are the creator of this software !!! > If YOU don't give the FULL documentation, then it is the user > (registered !) that will loose time searching something that he > cannot know about. Full documentation is provided -- Blitz is a games-oriented language and its games programming commands are all documented. Extraneous and low-level technical information is contained on the Specs & Utils site. See ya, -- James L Boyd, Connected from Fife, Scotland. Death to the Pixies! -- I'm sure you'll agree I was both polite, despite your tone -- I regularly deal with people who have a much lesser grasp of English than yourself without this sort of problem -- and informative. Assuming you accept that the above headers are un-edited and truthful, I think you'll agree that I replied fairly promptly; a response within a couple of days is much better than I've experienced with other product support, at least. |
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| I was going to write a long response to all the issues raised in this thread, but I'm not going to, since I would probably be violating the terms of service. I will say a few things tho', with regards to Delphi and FreePascal. a) The most obvious flaw is ofcourse that both of these languages are Pascal. b) As far as Delphi is concerned there is a factor 4 difference in price. I cannot believe someone would compare a $100 application to a $400 one. c) As far as FreePascal is concerned, well it doesn't even start on my PC, so I can't really say. I must say that my first impression isn't one of awe. Lastly I'll say it is indeed unfortunate that you don't like Blitz. I've used it as far back as I can remember, on the Amiga and the PC. As an interesting side-note I also still have AmosPro and DevPac3. And neither of those development packages (one of these you hold in rather high regards) have half the documentation or features that Blitz has. If *I* was expecting something like *Amos* when I bought Blitz, *I* would have been pleasently surprised! I'll tell you that for nothing. |
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| If you loved Amos that much maybe you'll feel more at home with Jamagic, which is made by the same guys that made Amos. Though I have to tell you, you won't find many similarities with Amos there either. Back in the Amiga days I moved from AmosPro to Blitz, and I never had to regret that. Oh, I miss those days... ps! Mark is gonna give me an evil eye for my Jamagic-pimpage. hehe ;) |
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| You know, i have zero problems using API calls in Userlibs, both in B+ and B3D .. and through that.. dialogs ARE possible.. but not the easiest. Tracer |
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| Maverick357 le lamer not to be confused with me !!!!! |
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| How can you complain Blitz is not up to spec when you had access to a free working demo AND a complete website where you could talk to other users before parting with a single Euro? Didn't do your (Blitz) research, 357. |
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| How can you complain Blitz is not up to spec when you had access to a free working demo AND a complete website where you could talk to other users before parting with a single Euro? Well, that's not entirely true - the forum is for registered users only.But yes there is a demo, and he could have mailed Blitz Research (which he did, but only to moan afterwards). |
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| One of the pro-things of blitz is -tho I dunno about this with other compilers- that I can copy/move the whole dir w/o need to re-install. Ofcourse I could freshly re-install blitz after an evil-OS (tm) re-install, but by copying my old backup, I've all my prefs and sources where they were, before Windows went bananas. |
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| But yes there is a demo Which is v1.66 - we currently use v1.85... 1.66 is missing LOADS of stuff, so hopefully no-one makes up his/her mind about Blitz by testing only the demo. :) |
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| We've had this conversation before, I really think the demo needs to be updated. And make it so you can't create exes and you are limited to a max of 10 entities rather than x uses. Anyway... off topic somewhat. |
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| @all I have all versions of Blitz and my company is currently developing no less than 3 commercial products - to be shipped on an international level. oh, and by the way - my cursor is *not* a "he", her name is "Ms. Cursor", and indeed she is VERY visible after having changed the configuration file :-D |
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| Which is v1.66 - we currently use v1.85... 1.66 is missing LOADS of stuff, so hopefully no-one makes up his/her mind about Blitz by testing only the demo. :) That's hardly the point here tho'. He saw the 1.66 demo, decided Blitz was good enough to warrant a purchase, and then got disappointed with the full version 1.85? Don't look at me, I can't explain it either... :o> |
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| @Flameduck underlige mennesker nogen gange .... :-) |
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| I currently use V1.66 - I think it's fine for what I paid. I was so happy to get hold of the `real thing`. I didn't like the change to the seperate debugger. One of the reasons I retro'd back to V1.66. 1.66 has all the functinality I need and lots more that I will never fully comprehend. It can be irritating when the cursor isn't easily locatable - but someone here provided me a tip. Hold down the shift key and press home to highlight the line where the cursor is at! Simple! Even I could do it. Blitz is the best value for money language around IMHO (I hope IMHO means 'in my humble opinion'). |
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| > The cursor is Not very visible, If you forget > where he is, you can loose time searching > it on the screen. Heh. I love loosers. > It is better To talk one language good Or > very good than speak 10 language badly. Well I guess then by your own theory you need more practice in English. HAHAHAH! :) |
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| I'm disapointed that Blitz has gone from being a modular power house language on a creative platform (Amiga) to a web entity for dedicating opinionated arrogance. |
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