HC Game Editor
Community Forums/Showcase/HC Game Editor
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| Well.. I open this post since this is the right place to write about it. and not 'Blitzmax programming' Thread. After two weeks of trying to fix Prefab issue Ive managed to get it more or less right. If making a prefab for it self is hard. then making a prefab that is constructed from other prefabs are even harder. I will have to release the source code so other great guys here will rise it higher. Thats all correct if I wont collapse before.  |
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| Well.. I open this post since this is the right place to write about it. I think you should have started a worklog, to be honest... |
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| Gfk. Thanks for your honesty.. I need a place to express my self. (It help my battle) Its not 'General Discussion' Thread so it should not bother ppl. Work logs here arnt getting any attention so whats the point. ATM all my post arnt interesting for most ppl but when Ill release a demo then this might change. |
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| I think you should have started a worklog, to be honest... Work logs here arnt getting any attention so whats the point. Both correct (but Gfk's being old school). That's why ploppy's using showcase as a worklog for his DirectX 9/11 project and getting lots of feedback. |
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| An Update. Now that Ive finished with the prefab process more or less Im into the Flowchart Construction And here is an Image.  The FlowChart is a way of constructing your game From the Main process, Down To Map And Down to Element and Sub Elements. To be continued.. |
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| Looking very nice, Hardcoal. |
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| Oh, that editor you mean, yeah, looks quite elaborate already! Nice job! I know how challenging interfaces can be, great job, by the looks of it! 8) |
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| Thanks. The flowchart section is already improved since this last picture |
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| congrats on the progress, it's looking very good indeed :) |
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| Thanks Adam. Uptill now I didnt have an undo for my editor.I was afraid its complexity. It took me like 4 hours to make an Undo process which was different for each Map and for Each Element on the map a separate undo as well. Wasnt so hard as I thought. Yesterday Ive made my own Particle Effect process. Went fine. well.. I dont know what will come out of this.. But will see. No Images for the moment |
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| Yep, undo is great in theory until you have to implement it. I've only dealt with single level undo as keeping a list of undo's becomes nasty. I took my 2d particle system and made it 2.5d yesterday too - lol |
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| What ive done is just copying the elements that had changes to a buffer and when pressing ctrl z i delete the exsiting ones and putting the older ones. So who cares about rotation scale etc... Even if i moved 10 elements. The buffer copies them all. So far so good |
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| from time to time i give up (from various reasons) and then i slow my working pace almost to null but still.. I keep doing something from day to day. I keep see great potential in what i did. As My Game Elements can accept a behavior Like Explode or Move Randomly etc.. but i have no time to program elegant behaviors so its going slow. any way i wish to produce a little demo and put it on YouTube here is an example of a behavior that can be attached to an element. ClsMngr.AddRemoveCreate.AddClassToGeneralClassesList(New Wavey_Class) Type Wavey_Class Extends ClassExtender_Class 'Data Field Force:DataCell_Class = ClsMngr.DataCells.AddDataCell_Value(Self, "Force", 1) Field Speed:DataCell_Class = ClsMngr.DataCells.AddDataCell_Value(Self, "Speed", 10) Field Looper:Float 'Play Loop Method PlayClass () Looper = Looper + Speed.Strng.Tofloat() ParentElement.Temps.RollForce = Force.Strng.Tofloat() * Cos(Looper) End Method Method WhileEditorMode() End Method Method PrepareClassBeforePlay() Looper = 0 End Method End Type This is just a function that makes an element swing from side to side like a pendulum the DataCell_Class is what appears on the MapEditor mode and then Values Can be changed  This is how it looks from the mapeditor View. So each class like this example can be attached to an element. so you can imagine how it can turn into a complex entity. Also an Element can have multi Behaviors. Also if considering that an Element can have sons and the sons can have also Behaviors. You can create a weird effects and of behaviors For now.. thats what Ive got |
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| I like your GUI design, very elegant. Are you utilizing GUI library (MaxGUI, wxMax) or is it OpenGL ? -Henri |
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| Its alba lynx under xors. |
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| Is this 2D Game Engine for making 2D Games? |
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| Im concentrating firstly on 2d games but its all 3d based. |
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| Its being 6 months. I haven't touched My Engine and kinda gave it up and almost admitted self failure. From time to time I need a big rest but it seems its not so in my nature to surrender easy. Some of you may think its a lost battle since its based on the lame Xors3D abandoned engine. But engines can be replaced.. Now Ive returned again to continue the construction of it, And Ill see where it will get me this time. All my purpose is to create something based on my principles. up to this moment I haven't got something worthy to represent (according to my standards). I hope it will happen. Maybe my concept will appeal to some people who would find how to improve it, and for that it may be worth it (Only Maybe..) Building both Engine and an Editor is Ultra hard. and most of my energy actually goes to the Editor it self and not the Engine process. Still.. I dont commit to anything anymore :p |
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| I think this looks good |
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| Tnx man. when/if it will be kinda done. ill release it to some people so they will be able to improve it. working alone is what makes it slow and hard and Kinda frustrating. slowly and surly Im having progress.. |
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 Much has changed and improved But only visible from the inside.. |
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| .. |
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| I Returned to work on my editor. After a long time of break.. I even tried to rebuild it on a 2D version But Decided to come back to this one.. Im very pleased with current state and Ive came out with lots of conclusions and Changes.. |
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| Excellent. I'll definitely keep an eye on your progress. |
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| Good work, I like taking a break from things from time to time as well. I like the style of your User Interface, looks good. |
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| Tnx mate/guys.. ILL Keep working on it as much as I can. Ill do my best. Unreal Editor is the most similar to my approach.. But suppose to be easier and more friendly..  13/06/2016 Im glad to say Ive succeeded in doing something really complected. Just had to share.. One more step towards my goal.. |
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| I decided finally to share a demo of what Ive Done. Im posting if for people review.. and opinions.. Ill be more than happy to get remarks.. and corrections.. I must mention that this is far from being perfect so it may get stuck and there are many issues.. After seen Unreal Editor.. I was amazed how many Idea that I thought of my self were actually similar to what Unreal Has Done.. As a single programmer I stand no chance and no intentions to be near Unreal Editor. I targeted my Editor more for a 2D Scroll games.. (that uses 3D) You can get the impression of how hard I worked only to achieve what I have.. I might make my code open for all If ill see people want to participate in developing. it is xors3d based and i have no intentions of changing it atm. I didnt even make a Demo.. so you do your test while I keep programming it. and this might give me a push.. No need to report me of bugs like Scaling issues.. I know all that.. All I want to hear Is Suggestions , Ideas and Reviews about the idea Here it is.. [no longer available] |
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| I think you guys make a mistake not responding, Ignoring.. Tnx for the "support" Ill keep what Im doing but then Ill close my gates for others upon this project. |
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| ok, here's a response for you? What platform is the download pc? Linux? OS X? You don't tell us? No need to report me of bugs like Scaling issues.. So you want feedback, but only if it meets YOUR requirements. So nobody responded? Maybe you should question why instead of throwing a fit and being negative. Maybe because you said it was a work in progress gave no indication of platform, was vaguely hostile to possible comments. You should be well aware by now that this is a small (but perfectly formed) group of people who may or may not value what you (or I) think is super fun-time. People have lives and also may not respond if they either don't have anything to contribute or don't want to upset the poster. Or, possibly the download just wasn't interesting enough? One should also consider how you are perceived through other posts. Ill keep what Im doing but then Ill close my gates for others upon this project. That's the community spirit ;) I do seem to remember recently something about all code should be made visible, open-source, etc. It's good to know you are sticking to your principles here ;] You want some feedback? Dump the vomit inspired color scheme of the flowchart! do some research on what makes a good GUI - Note multiple different coloured buttons are not a good UI Consider lining the GUI up so it flow without button beginning and ending here are there Your tabs - don't look like tabs what is the weird transparent area on the right on the (horrible) floating palettes The plural of Media is Media not Medias Thought about bitmaps - there should be only a few for EVERYTHING. you then use atlas functions to reference the individual frames from the single big image - the main reason for this is speed. lots of separate images files will slow the computer to a crawl - not with 10, but 100+ you are toast - research it That vile orange file button (is it a button) Either get rid or get someone to create you better graphics - the current one is like two different images fighting in a sack Look at windows and OS X and learn about unity within a GUI. You might not like what you see, but you can learn from it - folders look like folders even in visual studio's new flat look - they look like folders - not a stack of folders, not several different folders on top of each other - something simple and easy to see. On this subject. A Gui should be easy on the eyes, it should highlight the things you are interested in. That Vile lime green is not highlighting - it's screaming I'm an 80's reject with a dubious wardrobe sense. Nothing meshes - strange liver background - liver? buttons with edges that are more prominent than the text! Weird transparent areas Even wierden faded teal background with similar buttons and text so nothing stands out heading here, faded heading there. both not giving room for the GUI so everything is squashed together flowchart button in the middle in one shot, to the right in another - lookup consistency A successful GUI keeps everything in the same place. if you see a button on one screen and it appears on another, are they different - why? People like consistency 'play game' next to 'reset game' next to 'quit'? Really! Play game - what game. oh shit i reset the game - no i quit, oh forget it what a dumb place to group completely opposing things. People make mistakes - never punish them for your bad choices and on and on... :) You are doing yourself no favours here |
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| Hi Adam! First thanks for the reply :) Now lets get to business.. You talked so much nonsense that you made me smile.. :) And I mean Loads.. A tiny amount of your criticism I regarded worth looking.. I cant believe an intelligent person will be busy criticizing the GUI and not the Engine or the Idea. Your attempt to teach me a lesson/Educate me or just hurt me really upsetting and childish but ok.. If you think Im going to be kind and nice on my posting when I see a place for responding like I feel, than nope, I always loyal to my emotions. And I know that some people will take it the wrongly which is a shame You were 100% criticizing the GUI wth?! as if thats what I was trying to show.. that shows you have no clue nor an Idea how much work I put out behind the scenes.. I was posting it for people to understand the concept, not the darn GUI.. I wanted to spare people the nonsense you just wrote about buttons colors etc.. lol and not because I cant get criticism. (because it not the right time..) again, Your attempt to teach me a lesson is rather upsetting only because thats the only thing you really tried to achieve here. If this community is dealing with pathetic revengeful attitude, than let them have their fun.. I really dont care no more for getting responses about My Editor, spare it. Ill keep posting updates.. any one who wants to post, post. But ill never share it. Also You show ignorance in understanding like many others in my post on "Free your Code!" you guys can say whatever you like about me. But I always give people cheering up for their work (Including you mr) and I concentrate on what they try to achieve and not on the looks of their GUI's ATM. Yet.. you are the only one who actually responded, So I give you thumbs up only for that. Bottom line.. I dont care about my gui atm.. and people didnt respond from various reasons.. but its definitely aint proper nor nice.. you have being really putting an effort to insult me. I dont do that.. and btw, you are a nice artist, but certainly far from the best.. I do too some art.. but this gui is the least of my ways to display my artistic capabilities atm. I like your works.. but thats all about it. I value people rights not to respond, I just had to put out my frustration after years of work. If people like you tried to spare me the embarrassment than I assure you.. what Ive done internally is more complicated than its externally seems. Hope you know how to accept criticism in good spirit. About the platform definition.. I havnt thought its important to mention. I guess My mistake.. (Its for windows only atm) Cheers.. |
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| It's called constructive criticism. Something you obviously have NO idea about. It should HELP you become more constructive in developing your editor. Not piss you off. Not trying to be mean here. Just something to think about. Regards, ~GF |
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| I have no problems with that GF.. I Was complaining about ppl ignoration.. Firstly.. I accept any criticisms.. I wanted to release it as it is just To show my concept.. Not to be criticized for my fonts color. But if thats what pleases someone than feel free :) I have absolutely heard nothing about the Concept from adamstrange Besides the colors and looks of my gui buttons :p Great constructive criticism. I think its time ill put my real opinion About ppl works.. Starting with adams.. |
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| Hardcoal: I cant believe an intelligent person will be busy criticizing the GUI and not the Engine or the Idea. You presented a project, and Adam mentioned things about the presentation. I do not see a reason not to do. I hope I furtherly do not say something about "intelligent" and the way you use it here. Your attempt to teach me a lesson/Educate me or just hurt me really upsetting and childish but ok.. He does say something about things he at least believes (or really does) know about. If he does not know about game editors - nor is interested in it, he wont judge that portions of your tool. If you ask a music creator about your game, he most likely will judge the SFX rather than the GFX. You were 100% criticizing the GUI wth?! as if thats what I was trying to show.. When starting your tool - the GUI is what people will see at first glance. They also have to work with it the whole day. People also blame "MaxIDE" albeit the modules and the compiler are way more powerful. Also You show ignorance in understanding like many others in my post on "Free your Code!" There is a reason people seemingly were not on your side in this discussionas your initial post wasn't clarifying things you later "declared". BTW: your post (for that very moment) was: What do you think about this Issue.. We are all familiar with people/companies who start a project, Sell it. and than vanish from existence.. For Example Xors Team.. / Alba lynx.. Dont you think there should be a law that if you sell your product and decide to abandoned it you have to release it as public domain or something.. I think its a sort of a crime to make people pay for your code and than drop the floor beneath their legs.. we must put an end for this.. If you dont want to continue your project. fine! release it as public domain if you sold it for money.. someone should suggest this on higher Places.. while we at it.. ill be glad if someone who knows those xors dudes to let them know this. I, personally would never do such a thing.. ... no word about "frameworks" or "using it in your own project" ... so people can only read what was written: others to-purchase software abandoned - has to get released with open sources. If this community is dealing with pathetic revengeful attitude, than let them have their fun.. Come one ... childish attitude? why? [...] and I concentrate on what they try to achieve and not on the looks of their GUI's Judge the whole thing, not just the "idea" - exceptions have to he be stated clearly ("only read the last sentence, all others are getting replaced on next update"). I value people rights not to respond, I just had to put out my frustration after years of work. Before doing work, you should check if there is interest in something. I cannot code a tool to simulate "bottle cap closing" if nobody is interested in it. Also your tool might need more hmm "publicity" - advertise it on youtube by showing some tutorials how you do things. Present them here and there to make users aware. Publishing a "game maker tool" (or whatever it is) within a coder community wont lead to the desired results: why should people bother using yours and not their own "tinkered out" source codes? What is the benefit of using something relying on "xors 3d" (the community knows about the state of this tool). Another thing: most people here are discussing about this and that, but wont really test the others projects, they most often just do not have the time to play others creations. it is a coder forum, not a user forum. So take into consideration what people expect from your apps: they do not judge the game / tool itself, but the way it is coded, the things it is able to do (cross platform, single code base, faster than light, good gfx effects with vanilla bmax code. ..). Nonetheless: I too think, that Adam overdid when only mentioning "what is wrong". To make your points "acceptable" you always have to mix them with good points... I think its time ill put my real opinion About ppl works.. Starting with adams.. Please also do a honest review of my game ... because honest reviews encourage me to improve... it is better than always reading "good job, Wow, ... bla bla bla". bye Ron |
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| @Hardcoal>>imo you should have given a more detailed description of what your tool is about, what are the functionalities, what we can use it for, and also what kind of feedback you want (functionalities and usability, not the appearance of the gui) just do not have the time to play others creations. it is a coder forum, not a user forum i agree, ask your target users if you want meaningful useful feedback. people who may or may not value what you (or I) think is super fun-time. People have lives and also may not respond if they either don't have anything to contribute or don't want to upset the poster. or are not interested about this kind of tool/game or don't need this kind of tool/game or don't have time to test it Always keep in mind that your likes, tastes, obsessions, are important for you, not for everybody, so try to stay cool if nobody care (i know it's frustrating but hey that's how it is) |
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| Tnx Derron for a nice response. I Accept and value most of your remarks. I have some troubles being clear from time to time.. I dont know adam.. So its my mistake expecting him to review the editor and not the GUI. I dont build this editor for others, mainly for my self. Im glad I posted it, it took a stone of my chest. From here on it will only start to take shape. And people's reviews will change. The GUI looks is the least of my worries |
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| Think the most important step is to base the whole thing on something which is still supported. I never used "Xors 3d" but when reading some posts here on the forum, I doubt that it is the best solution. bye Ron |
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| Lol.. as if im gonna change from xors.. You just answered my topic *free your code. Why you should force ppl who abandon their Code (which you paid for) to release it.. You seems also to prove having no idea How difficult is what exactly im doing.. (which i cant blame you for) Changing from xors would be idiotic, stupid and suicidal for me at this point. While im in the inventing process Better stick with what i got.. Its almost similar to dealing with my GUI at this point. I just cant afford it. And thats exactly why working alone is a problem .. My current target is to see whether my editor concept will actually work.. After that i can consider changing engines.. I must make it clear.. I did invent it all by my self.. The blue print concept was my idea.. I didnt copy it from unreal nor any other place When i thought of my engine concept. And Im still inventing.. I learnt blitzmax while programming my engine with loads and loads of trails and errors.. (I was not an experienced programmer) But my main issue which really prevents Me is my freaking punishment from that freaking god of ours and that is being Suffering from computer electromagnetics Or something. So im doing what i can under those crazy circumstances TY Mate really for your advice though :) Lets see first if i can profuce a nice engine frame work under what i got.. And then will see about changing the engine. For now, xors delivers the goods i need Cheers |
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| ok, maybe I didn't make myself clear. Look over the previous posts in this and you'll find I was one of the few who did say you were doing a good job. but that was 2 years back. I'm not going to say any more about guis, whatever, just reference some other similar (game design package stuff): Unity:  Unreal:  Leadwerks: (editor is made in blitzMax)  Yours:  What you may or may not have achieved in not the issue. The issue is usability and likability. People want to look at what they are presented with and instantly get a feel for what is going on. Consistency, style, and logic all come into play here. Whilst buying off eBay I was once told "If it looks damaged, it probably is and you will have bought a load of trouble". Software is the same - even for tools. I am going to say one thing again... 'Quit and Save' next to 'Quit' next to 'reset Game' next to 'Play' <-- come on! Oh, and I love the floating 'Game Paused' - can I have one too? The plane looks great ;) |
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| LOL about the floating "gamepaused" adam but bahhh for all the rest.. Dont compare what im doing to projects that are done by teams or with 10000000$ Budget per year at the moment. Again, i uploaded the project just for general impression.. And thats also why ive added V0.11 on the rar file . So ppl get the idea its far from being v1.0 But i do take in mind ur remarks. I want ppl to experience the development from where it is currently now as im working on it And yea, u did compliment me in the past i havnt forgotten that as well So tnx for that adam |
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| I suggest to save before you quit :P |
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| Remi... All the maps are saved on temp map folder The reason i dont ask if to save before quit is because im developing it and it bothers me at this point. I bound to commit that My next release will be with an Example Game Im quite certain most people will be interested in my project if ill get to a good completion point. You must use full hd to view it properly |
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| I want to tell you guys.. That Ive reached a point where my Game Editor is really getting shape.. But Due to mainly my screen Issues I may give up on it anyhow.. Its amazing Ive reached 90% of its completion (+-) and I feel about it as a personal success .. proving others is less important to me.. because I know it works.. I was planing on getting assistance from others in this forum and it would do lots of good to the community because its the only blitz max game editor and by adding functions it can turn really great.. But i cant go on alone no more.. and its a shame for everyone.. |
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| > and its a shame for everyone.. ... for everyone interested in a "game editor". I doubt everybody here in the forums is interested in such a tool, some of us prefer tinkering or are creating something, which is not a "jump n run" or something similar "repeating" (casual games, jumpnruns, arcade games). So do not blame the 10 active people of not being interested in your special tool - else others should cry too. If non-commercial: either do it for your personal goals or stop doing it. You said you have done it for yourself: so be proud, and share your gained experiences with others, but do not go off just because some others do not share your interest/hobby. bye Ron |
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| You dont get it Derron, I blame no one.. You misunderstood me .. And also its not a jump and run editor lol. This is not a complaint Post.. I totally understand people for not showing interest.. but only because they dont see its real value.. I was just making a statement of my current situation. no less no more.. Im not saying im Gonna quit.. but my pace went really low.. but thats my worries anyway I guess right? :) Its Still fun working on it. God bless me and america :p Even if everyone will lose interest ill keep going :yuuhuu Until ill reach a decent demo.. |
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| @ Jump n Run So what it is then about? How to code eg. "Settlers" with it? Everything working with "maps" and standard behaviour of units is good to get created via "game editors" - so this includes basic arcade games (frogger, pacman, bejeweled) and things like jump'n'runs. Also benefiting from editors: point n click adventures (there are adventure-kits out there). For me it is really hard to understand how "more complex" gameplays should be done via "visual editing" (there is just too much on variables connected to each other). But I understand that it eases setting up things like "effects" (explosions, beams, ...). Just to "bump" the thread: how to tackle AI in your editor? Via scripting or behaviours or ... ? bye Ron |
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| **Double Post** |
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| My Editor is relying on Programming Classes which than can be attached to any object.. I totally understand your point of limited point and click Editors.. Thats Why This is a tool that allows you to program as well with blitzmax what ever you like .. all you need to do is Extend your Code with my Class_Extender and then in a few seconds you can add it to any object you like.. This makes it a great tool for quick Results.. I dont force to work with my Flowchart.. its only optional.. I presented so far no game demo so I dont blame people for not understanding what is going on there.. About AI for example.. You must program Classes for that and of course not construct it by a Flowchart.. but as i said, Im a single programmer so im very limited in my ability to face all issue.. But this editor is definitely unlimited to what you can do with it as long as you combine programming as well. Games Like settlers would be possible but I agree, I didnt really aim for this type of games. im more pointing atm for 3D Scroll games and shooters.. or adventures like the Trine.. my latest version is much better than the older one.. so it does taking shape.. Tnx Derron for responding and showing some Interest Anyway.. No big Deal..,Just an Editor. whatever will be will be I have other projects |
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| I think this looks really amazing. I am sure that it has been an incredible amount of work! |
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| Thanks Why0Why.. will see what will be |
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| ignoring the editor itself. why not make a demo showcasing what can be done with it. maybe even a few demos showcasing how easy it is to use to do A, or B, or C, etc ;) |
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| That's exactly my plan Adam.. you dont need to ignore the editor. cause the editor is what it is. I dont need to impress people, I know what it can do because i built it. also I dont need to sell it to anyone. ide rather spend my time improving it than impressing people. anyone who can see beyond being fed will realize its value.. im planning my next release with a game. so than people will be able to research and check it rather well. I believe it will take two months or so from now. but it may be sooner.. also atm.. its not really ready for a real demo because some principals are not determent yet and as you can see, visually like you said, its still kind of messy. but tnx for your suggestion adam, I appreciate it :) |
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| Instead of just providing a demo game then: - screencast how you create a very simple game (eg. frogger or some simple spaceship game). - screencast does not need to show HOW you create assets, but should explain certain needs (eg. animation frame/sprite arrangement in spritesets That way people could see HOW to tackle things in your editor. They would not need to read documentation to see how capable (or not) it is. Disadvantage: for big iterations of your editor (v1, v2, ...) things might get outdated in a screencast. Advantage: doing it "for the spectators" might expose flaws in your editor ("ohhm, normally this should work but ... hummm" or "you need to click here, then there and there and just three clicks more and voila ... sprite added"). I am writing this as most often you only develop-test-use specific parts of your program while the other users (try to) explore the whole thing in one session. bye Ron |
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| Maybe i will just make a youtube vid.. But my voice is awful atm :p There is so much to explain.. But thats the easiest way.. The prob.. i sound miseraBle on video.. And at one point im planning to release the code anyways.. Sorry for the silly question . What screen castings means? My English aint 100% Do you nean i should explain by text or with images like power point? I really need pro help cause im sure Professionals can fix lots of my mistakes And can jump the maybe amateur level of this editor a real worthy tool. I wanted to integrate an ide coding as welljust to let you know.. Also some things i do their are experimental and i may cancel them. Since i don't copy from anyone, Many times i change/improve my concept In order to get to the point that games will be really easy and clear to creat. I now face some fundamental thing i need to fix/decide on the blueprint programming.. Which is more important than anything. Every time when i actually try to make a game with this , i encounter new issues.. Thats the real test of its concept.. And thats where i make the real crucial decissions.. I can tell you one thing though.. Its really far more complex than The first impression it makes.. Some things their are insanely complex. |
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| @ screencasts You just record your desktop (or the application area) while creating your simple game. So people see where you click, what you type in, where you need to alt-tab to 3rd party tools ... and so on. Similar to video tutorials... just without "cuts" (except you need to cut out sneezes or so). @ professionals If you are shy about your voice: place subtitles or use artificial voices. Also: to arouse interest you need to start "somehow". No need to start with professional voice overs or other things - if this releases are not reaching a big audience (yet). bye Ron |
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| Ok. Tnx. Got ya..Ron Btw atm.. im not interested in big audience.. It will only pressure me.. Your opinion guys is enough and sufficient for me at this point :) Thats why i sometimes apologize.. I want to feel free to abandon it Anytime and just fly to Thailand :p Ill try to make a screencast again.. Good idea Adam.. im a pretty good artist I believe, so making a good GUI is the least of my worries.. I wish thats the only thing I ought to do. :)  I really cant release my full abilities with the current monitors technology.. |
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| I spy, with my critical eye... Something beginning with Escher :) On UI design. Does it help you to work quicker/better/faster? or make life a bit more difficult? example of this would be an interface where you have a red x in the bottom left corner of each (floating) window. When you click the red x. the window doesn't close - but something else happens (say minimise the window). Now that is great. you've created an interface that does something. But, if every app on the market uses a red x to close a window and has it in the top left. You are going to confuse (and possibly annoy) quite a lot of your users. If they are not happy, then they will complain and possibly stop using your product. Guess what guys? This example came from a real commercial product (a large and professional one too) I dealt with a few years back. The UI list of errors/problems came to many pages. I fell off my chair a few times and got told (by those at board room level) to stop dissing their product. Eventually it was all corrected, but took ages and a lot of fighting. P.S. I love Escher... |
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| Turst me adam.. Im a big criticizer too.. And Ive done the same.. to other products.. but only when they are declared finished.. I do value any remark you make.. Ive seen your work and I was pretty impressed with your clean and neatly design. you have no clue how many things are sitting in my buffers minds waiting to be made... * Like a better object manipulator on the working screen. * I need to fix the undo process.. * all the colors of the editor sucks.. and the text is not clear (because i dont know how to change its color) * there is still a lot of mess with the general order of all the windows. * The upper menu is just temporally unorganized.. And so on.. Eventually it will be immculate and clear like a leonardo de vinchi picture and not like a picasso :) about my pic.. I just like to draw complex things out of my mind.. there is certainly an Escher influence in it no doubt I dont do much drawing.. this is from 10 years ago. |
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| I have to second Adams thoughts on GUI. There are some kind of "guidelines" to follow. Problem: each OS is a bit different See "[x]"-close button on windows: some have them top-left, some top-right, some even have nothing of it but a "global" button bar for the active/focused window. This also depends on user settings, themes, ... BUT... there is some kind of "general compromise" - and this is to have the "window title bar" on top of a window (if there is one) and to have buttons in that bar-area. Even if you use a different OS/theming, most users for sure know what you mean with "[x]" because they see it in their IOS/android-casual-game-popups (which DEVs surely know ;-)) or tools they use next to yours (Blender, Gimp, Max, Maya, Photoshop, zBrush, ... for the assets) More important is: _I_ as a one who is ought to use your editor am a bit disattracted if the GUI does look like "puzzled together". If everything looks "sleek" and "organized" I also assume that the product (the editor) is similar. Your editor is then similar to "Mainsworthys" games: it might work nicely, it might be doing exactly what it is supposed to do BUT ... people will have a bad taste as it looks a bit "amateurish" then (and with "amateurish" people have certain assumptions - like "bugs" or "limited functionality"). -> invest a few hours to polish the GUI elements, make them sleek / nice looking -> invest more hours to make things look consistent (button alignment, button position, ...) I bet ... you will feel better afterwards (but not yet convinced of the result as it just looks "different" to before) - and you will surely be motivated to show off the changes in this thread. If you do not know how to do a proper GUI (see my game ... I am struggling too, but Adam did not offer me some help yet ;-)) ask people for help - or look how other "toolsets" design/style their widgets. For a TOOL it is always good to have them "snappy / clear type". There is no need for fancy gradients, splashy colors ... Make it look a bit like a business app (grayscale or "dark" or "bright") and use light toned colors as accents to emphasize important things ("delete", "run", "variable is linked to another actor" ...). also do not make the buttons "huge" - people need the space for their project and project organization (open windows with trees, navigation). If not sure: allow scaling of gui widgets (text, not graphically done button-graphics). Afterwards: show the changes to the people (here - and otherwhere) After Afterwards: create the next revision of your changes (as surely the people spotted some bugs and annoying things) Do this until it is 80% perfect - the missing 20% will occupy too much of your time (pareto optimum). You might once finish such bugs/annoyances but for now this will have to be okay. Edit: - your Tool is "windows only" - so I will only judge by screenshots/screencasts (am on Linux) - checkboxes in your screenshot are bit "big" and therefor "checkpoint lists" use more space than really needed -> there were "radio button / checkbox sets" in many RAD tools for "option boxes" to save on space - use "button layouts" .--------------------. | BUTTON1 | '--------------------' .--------. .--------. | LOAD | | SAVE | '--------' '--------' .--------------------. | BUTTON2 | '--------------------' .--------------------. | BUTTON3 LONGER | '--------------------' instead of some "only occupy as much space as needed" layouts: .---------. | BUTTON1 | '---------' .------. .------. | LOAD | | SAVE | '------' '------' .---------. | BUTTON2 | '---------' .----------------. | BUTTON3 LONGER | '----------------' It is much easier for theys to see structure for "blocks". This might be why books are printed _not_ left-aligned but in blockstyle. bye Ron |
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| Here's a thought or two. - BlitzMax does not have a great gui system. I needed to write my own to get anywhere with anything complex. - BlitzMax isn't (initially) setup for proper message based apps, you (again) need to write a base framework/system first. - BlitzMax is outdated in that it only supports 32bit. You'll need to move to BlitzNG for that. - Monkey had a terrible compilation process, monkey2 is very similar to BlitzMax - Monkey2 has a good approach to events and message systems from the outset, so you don't need to write one. - Monkey2 gui system is horrible, but usable. Best to write your own here - Monkey2 editor is not good. ok but not good - Monkey2 language is really quite nice and doesn't take a lot to very usable things from it As much as I love BlitzMax, I think Monkey is a better solution and you might find it more productive, particularly being able to have a base class and then extend them to create components - very quickly. I'm going that now. You can see c++ and some of the neat things that can be done with this filtering through Final thoughts It took about a year to create and debug My blitzMax app framework including Gui, and lots of other graphic stuff. It took a month to rewrite the default monkey2 editor and a week to create a brand new Gui system for it < a very flexible one that is far more powerful than my first one. You might find it interesting to dip a toe and see if monkey2 is the right answer some of the problems you are having? Sometimes a fresh approach is all that is needed to get things started again. |
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| Ok, you posted some content before I finished mine: Things like "GUI" is done in multiple steps: - the basics (making widgets work) - the coding part (make them interact with the engine) - the fun part (making widgets look good) - the tedious part (layout of the widgets) You now have the problem, that the tool (a game EDITOR) does not work flawless (undo and window management). This are "step 1" (making widgets and the editor work flawless) and "step 2". bye Ron |
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| Guys.. Give me time.. and Ill fix all this GUI issues.. I didnt even finish with the actual Engine concept which is the most important of all. Im kinda bound to AlbaLynx GUI, which seized to have support. I intentionally cancled the [X] close for each window because there is no need to close them anyway.. making a flexible editor that varies the size of each window etc is too much for me atm. also I dont even let to change the resolution of the editor.. I cant even if I want move to BlitzNG. better keep it in the line Im at. only if ill release the code.. people will be able to do what ever they want.. but first I need to make it worth wanting to start with. Tnx for now. Ill take everything you've said in mind . |
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| I wanna say that I kinda reached my 100% goal in my Editor.. This means its general Concept is ready and not that its being perfected. now I can concentrate mainly on improving it.. Im just posting this as a landmark for my self. |
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